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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

"switching over Linux support to Proton"

Yeah... Not so much a fan of this. It might be easier but it's not the intended route.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

@pieceofthepie Agreed.

I definitely want something that is supported well and targets the latest native libraries (even via API translations) instead of a not-well-supported build that statically links old libraries (and even older graphics libraries, like SDL1.x instead of SDL2.x, OpenGL instead of Vulkan), has input issues (lack of gamepad, odd mouse support), and doesn't necessarily work across different distributions.

(Former is Proton; latter is a typical "native port".)

in reply to Garrett LeSage

@garrett @pieceofthepie "Only zealots demand native" is such a bad take.

There are several problems with Linux depending on Windows for the long-term health of Linux as a gaming platform. One of which is that we're constantly playing catchup with Windows APIs, we're also reinforcing Windows' dominance ("better Windows than Windows" doesn't work), and when there's a significant impedance mismatch (Wayland vs everything else), we're basically screwed in some respects.

in reply to Neal Gompa (ใƒ‹ใƒผใƒซใƒปใ‚ดใƒณใƒ‘) :fedora:

@Conan_Kudo @garrett @pieceofthepie it's the most realistic take, most developers don't care - and why should they, we're not even 2% of the market on Steam, it's wildly ridiculous to go around demanding native ports that require development time and support time that costs money for such little return

You need to take a step back, take off the bias glasses you're wearing and look at the market.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

@Conan_Kudo @garrett @pieceofthepie Yes, the IDEAL situation, is that developers target Linux directly and support it directly - but there's basically little reason for them to

That won't happen with less than 2% market, and hasn't happened for the massive vast majority of titles people want to play for the entire time i've run gamingonlinux.

Wine / Proton are also game preservation tools, and great ones too. They're also open source. Remember, most games are proprietary.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

the bigger killers are probably companies and games that explicitly go out of their way to prevent functioning on Linux/Wine/Proton. These compatibility layers have done pretty well for non-hostile games over time.
in reply to Pyral

@Pyral @garrett @pieceofthepie So what... we should give up then? Because we only got this far with idealism. Idealism is the only thing really holding us to even making this work at all. There is no business sense for anything we're doing right now.

Idealism is how we're getting a more open and integrated NVIDIA driver. Idealism is how we're getting more places to use Linux. Idealism is how we actually make progress. There are varying degrees, but it's extremely important.

in reply to Neal Gompa (ใƒ‹ใƒผใƒซใƒปใ‚ดใƒณใƒ‘) :fedora:

gaming is a very different cut-throat market, i have to be honest but itโ€™s just really naive to keep demanding it

Big publishers want big money, weโ€™re not that. Small indie devs work for scraps often, and putting time into a tiny market for so little gain is not worth it

Itโ€™s not like a console, where it makes sense to have dedicated games, be realistic, Proton/Wine are open source and work *now*

This entry was edited (7 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

@Conan_Kudo @Pyral @garrett @pieceofthepie and long-term health of the platformโ€ฆbecause of what? The only games that break are those constantly updated, and those again are not going to care about the 2% market, for basically all others Wine/Proton will run them basically forever (and at times even better than on Windows)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

@Conan_Kudo @Pyral @garrett @pieceofthepie the actual saner idea is to try to get more devs to do open source, THEN get them native where they can keep being updated for all the times Linux distro and kernel devs decide something has to change that breaks everything again
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

I'm thinking on opposite way, like devving on linux and expecting people to use WSL on windows.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐Ÿง๐ŸŽฎ

@Conan_Kudo @pieceofthepie I'm also super happy that devs are embracing Linux โ€” Proton and native โ€” thanks to wanting to make sure their games work on a Steam Deck *somehow*.

Linux definitely isn't a lot of the market share on Steam, but it's still the second largest, under Windows and above macOS.

Also: Some games run so well in Proton compared to natively on Windows, that Windows folks are pulling pieces (like DXVK) over to Windows to get the games to run better (or at all).

in reply to Garrett LeSage

@garrett @Conan_Kudo @pieceofthepie "support" is the main thing we want, it doesn't matter if it's "native" or run through Proton.

All games eventually end up having the developer move on from it, so in the end, Proton/Wine basically always win since you can just update that to improve the game for modern systems, unless the game is open source (which most are not)

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