so Gaben solved it by providing a service, proving that servicing nazi pones, Hitler sex games, US war crimes games, and child exploitation / sex games isn't about pricing. Oh but you can opt out of sex games, lol. Wasn't old Gabe brought before congress recently to talk about exposing kids to hateful, exploitative shit? I've been on steam since 2004, and yeah, Gabe hosts nazi pones. We all know that.
If your reply is blaming people for not reading the ToS: don’t be an ass. Companies make them difficult to parse for normal average people. When you purchase something, you expect it to be yours.
that's true, but up to a point. The ephemeral nature of these services has been one of the key topics of discussion about DRM, piracy, and user rights for over a decade now. It's not like warnings about it have not been issued wherever this has been possible. Not everybody may have been reached by it, but I wouldn't be surprised if most people have come across such warnings and simply disregarded them for being “extremist” or “paranoid”. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/743/
It's 2023. Saying that people can't be expected to know what they're getting when paying for online content is akin to saying they can't be expected to understand what leasing or financing a car really means for ownership.
At least learning this lesson costs a lot less than having your vehicle repossessed.
Also, usually when you're expected to read a contract before you sign it, you and/or your lawyers get a say in requesting a change to the contract before you sign and agree to it.
You can't do that with a TOS or an EULA, so we're stuck with either never using the service, or "Agreeing" to their terms.
Doesn't mean that we actually think it's a good deal if we agree after reading the TOS or EULA.
While this isn’t uniquely American, is this even legal in jurisdictions with better consumer rights like the EU and Australia? Or are they simply not doing this in those jurisdictions where it’s illegal or a gray area?
#GabeN is right, since #Steam is seen as a desireable function and not a shitty #DRM to the point that developers get bullied and hated if they don't offer their game on it...
After all, #Valve may delist a game but they don't steal it from peoples' libraries!!!
it should be illegal, punishable by a painful death. If you call it a purchase, your button says "buy" or anything of that sort, it shouldn't matter what your licenses say - those mean something to users.
If you want to do this, you need to say Your Rental, Rent Now, etc.
Why I like having physical copies, but I remember hearing on the news awhile back that another group did this as well and removed the streamed/cloud "property"
Times like this, I'm glad Steam tends to let you keep games that are pulled from the store. For that reason, I still have Transformers Devastation, and some other things.
they even went rather cocky admitting that you purchased those, not "licensed" or something that would make you think it's more ok, cause you _technically_ did not buy anything (other than the right to watch it for as long as someone feels like it).
nous sommes vraiment désolés mais, suite aux arrangements que nous avons passés avec d'autres que vous, vous ne serez plus en mesure d'entrer dans la maison que vous avez achetée. On vous remercie pour votre soutien inconditionnel. Bisou.
(Par contre, vous continuerez à payer les impôts de la maison vu que vous en êtes l'heureux propriétaire. Faut pas déconner non plus hein.)
I think the honeymoon period of digital purchases is over and it's time to get some proper legislation about it. I find it highly misleading to say I'm "purchasing" something, when I'm really getting a temporary license with uncertain expiration date.
I still have a lot of PS2 DVDs in my closet. Maybe it is time to resurrect them. In few words, I will ditch the possibility of buying a PS4/5 and buy a modified game computer with physical DVDs. The old format is the best.
If they are no longer providing the service (ability to stream that title), then you should be able to get a refund. You paid them for the ability to stream that title indefinitely. They are still in business. So this is breach of contract. Stand by for a class action lawsuit?
it is a pointed reminder that you don't own a digital copy. The provider can remove it at any time. I buy physical media and can play it any time and on any device with a dvd or Blu-ray drive depending on the media.
Like everyone else says. Purchase movies and tv shows digitally, you're still stuck with it and can't do anything else with it. Purchasing a blu-ray disc or dvd is the way better option if applicable.
Edit: It also sucks because even if you purchase it digitally, you can't watch it if there are licensing issues or gets removed from a platform.
when I got this email this morning I was mad and I never even had any video purchases with Sony! Google also did this recently but they at least provided a link to download everything before it's removed. Sony is just stealing back everything they sold.
This should be classified as theft and be prosecuted as illegal, because it's literally the same as if Sony were to steal peoples' BluRay discs from their homes!
I consider it a moral obligation for any affected customer to demand not only theor money back but a DRM-free copy on top of that.
Shit like this is why people pirate, because honest consumer buying get shaftedbEVERY SINGLE TIME!
they even use the word “purchase”. How is that not a reason to require a refund, perhaps on basis that it clear was not in fact “purchased” in the first place.
I'm fairly confident that in the EU, and still AFAIK in the UK, this wouldn't be legal. In the UK this is the Unfair Contract Terms Act. The EU legislation is linked below. The schedule of unfair term includes
(d) permitting the supplier to retain sums paid where the latter decides not to perform the contract, without providing for compensation of an equivalent amount from the supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;
You have not purchased anything that remains part of someone else's system. You have just rented it for an indefinite period. That may not be right, but that's the way it is. Go back to DVDs.
Unfortunately that's how purchasing non physical media most of the time works, you don't buy a copy of the content but pay for a licence that can be revoked or changed at any time by the license giver. That's why I prefer companies like GOG for games, as long as I have a downloaded copy of the installer I can install and play it whenever I want, even if removed from the store.
Anyone remember yellow dog linux? You could run it on the PS3; indeed, part of my justification for buying the PS3 was that I could get a linux for the platform to mess around. Until Sony got cold feet and removed it after the fact, without warning or compensation. Sound familiar? That PS3 was the *very last* time I've given Sony a dime - they're thieves, simple as that. Of course they have their reasons to be thieves, so that makes it ok? I'll keep that in mind - sony thinks stealing is ok if you have a good reason.
I guess that is what happens when you dont own you media. I think we need to always think back to the physical world to see those problems. Streaming is NOT having your media in "your library". It is asking a company to manage your media for you. That company just lend it to your when you ask them. No matter if the button says "purchase" or "rent".
Well unless you have no DRM or at least easy to crack DRM, you don't actually get anything for your "purchase". We seriously need a ban on DRM. BTW Blurays and UHD Blurays are comparatively easy to rip.
sadly, I consider most any digital content I have as being rented unless I can make a backup to my own storage. Even then with things like online games, it's expected that it's ephemeral.
Digital media aside, it is the Refund point that is the stickler here.
If indeed Discovery pulled the rug on Sony in turn, what Sony should do is 1. Write a more in debt explanation of what happened and of course 2. Immediately refund the purchases.
> We sincerely thank you for your continued support
That continued support is why no one has any option to move on and support anything else, while they continue robbing you (anyone wants to argue it's not?) without as much as an apology.
I think this is something that should go to court, just because their TOS says XYZ doesn't make it legally binding. I really think this idea of one time rental fees is bogus, if you pay once for it then it's a product, if you have to pay an ongoing fee then, and only then, is it a service that they have a right to cancel.
pak0st
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Ertain
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •In this case, piracy may be a necessary evil for watching the lost content.
Edit: apparently, I struck a nerve with this toot.
Pastorinni
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Jeremy Bray
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •WanderingOwl
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Vile Lasagna
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •RussianDeepStateSock
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •realspiffy
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Shaun Dyer
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Oblomov
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Infrastructures
xkcdJanne Moren
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •It's 2023. Saying that people can't be expected to know what they're getting when paying for online content is akin to saying they can't be expected to understand what leasing or financing a car really means for ownership.
At least learning this lesson costs a lot less than having your vehicle repossessed.
Alexander The 1st
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Also, usually when you're expected to read a contract before you sign it, you and/or your lawyers get a say in requesting a change to the contract before you sign and agree to it.
You can't do that with a TOS or an EULA, so we're stuck with either never using the service, or "Agreeing" to their terms.
Doesn't mean that we actually think it's a good deal if we agree after reading the TOS or EULA.
Vertana
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •#GabeN is right, since #Steam is seen as a desireable function and not a shitty #DRM to the point that developers get bullied and hated if they don't offer their game on it...
After all, #Valve may delist a game but they don't steal it from peoples' libraries!!!
Scott Michaud
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •mattmaison
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •T Kennedy
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Sigmund Judge
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •alpha1beta
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •it should be illegal, punishable by a painful death. If you call it a purchase, your button says "buy" or anything of that sort, it shouldn't matter what your licenses say - those mean something to users.
If you want to do this, you need to say Your Rental, Rent Now, etc.
Erick White
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Cadey Bunny
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •It's-a me Shaw
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Jerry Wham
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •nous sommes vraiment désolés mais, suite aux arrangements que nous avons passés avec d'autres que vous, vous ne serez plus en mesure d'entrer dans la maison que vous avez achetée. On vous remercie pour votre soutien inconditionnel. Bisou.
(Par contre, vous continuerez à payer les impôts de la maison vu que vous en êtes l'heureux propriétaire. Faut pas déconner non plus hein.)
Ari [APz] Sovijärvi
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •J. Blake
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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Asariel
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Michael Hamlin - 🏳️🌈
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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Shadow D. Wolf :therian:🏳️🌈
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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •William Gunn
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •tomcat :arch_linux:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Tetra
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Like everyone else says. Purchase movies and tv shows digitally, you're still stuck with it and can't do anything else with it. Purchasing a blu-ray disc or dvd is the way better option if applicable.
Edit: It also sucks because even if you purchase it digitally, you can't watch it if there are licensing issues or gets removed from a platform.
George Saich
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Andrew
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •This is Hell
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •excited for the mastodon rise
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Marcus
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Playstation did the same thing to me way back with movies I had purchased directly from them.
With modern consoles you don't "own" anything, you're just renting a license to content for as long as they feel like making it available.
Alex Markley :mbetv:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •This should be classified as theft and be prosecuted as illegal, because it's literally the same as if Sony were to steal peoples' BluRay discs from their homes!
I consider it a moral obligation for any affected customer to demand not only theor money back but a DRM-free copy on top of that.
Shit like this is why people pirate, because honest consumer buying get shaftedbEVERY SINGLE TIME!
#PiracyIsntTheftIfBuyingIsntOwning
Nantucket E-Books
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Air Adam
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Cozy Tasia
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •enlightend
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •PointlessOne :loading:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •haui
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •#classactionlawsuit
#OnlyBuyPhysicalMedia
#piracyisnttheftifbuyingisntowning
RevK :verified_r:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Kathy E. Gill 🇺🇦
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Token Sane Person
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •I'm fairly confident that in the EU, and still AFAIK in the UK, this wouldn't be legal. In the UK this is the Unfair Contract Terms Act. The EU legislation is linked below. The schedule of unfair term includes
(d) permitting the supplier to retain sums paid where the latter decides not to perform the contract, without providing for compensation of an equivalent amount from the supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:31993L0013
L_1993095EN.01002901.xml
eur-lex.europa.euMathaetaes
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Peter Fisher
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •DarkWolf
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Magiilaro
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •That's why I prefer companies like GOG for games, as long as I have a downloaded copy of the installer I can install and play it whenever I want, even if removed from the store.
Tonći Galić
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Biggles
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •blackinbrampton
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Mike MC
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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •GrayGooGlitch :v_lesbian:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Ciscogod
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Interpipes 💙
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Jinshei
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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Grim grinning KTs come out to
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Kirils
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Christian Berger DECT 9314
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •BTW Blurays and UHD Blurays are comparatively easy to rip.
Baron Vonskinnback
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Ray Of Sunlight
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •what the duck
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •MegatronicThronBanks
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Phil M0OFX
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Awesome New Year Robot
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •cultdev
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •hobbsc
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Doridian
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •ADisorderlyFashion
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •:blahaj: Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Digital media aside, it is the Refund point that is the stickler here.
If indeed Discovery pulled the rug on Sony in turn, what Sony should do is 1. Write a more in debt explanation of what happened and of course 2. Immediately refund the purchases.
[lubko @ FOSDEM no more] 🇺🇦
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Gokul Das
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •> We sincerely thank you for your continued support
That continued support is why no one has any option to move on and support anything else, while they continue robbing you (anyone wants to argue it's not?) without as much as an apology.
Lord Tacitus 🇮🇪 :dnd: 🎮
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •"You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"
I think this is something that should go to court, just because their TOS says XYZ doesn't make it legally binding. I really think this idea of one time rental fees is bogus, if you pay once for it then it's a product, if you have to pay an ongoing fee then, and only then, is it a service that they have a right to cancel.
C.B.Leslie
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Jake Harrison
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •#PiracyIsntTheftIfBuyingIsntOwning
#PiracyIsJustified
Ryuno-Ki
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •Kevin Karhan :verified:
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXH8jXefqE
Sony Steals Customers' Purchased Content - Piracy is COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED!
YouTubeVincent
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮 • • •