If your reply is blaming people for not reading the ToS: donโt be an ass. Companies make them difficult to parse for normal average people. When you purchase something, you expect it to be yours.
that's true, but up to a point. The ephemeral nature of these services has been one of the key topics of discussion about DRM, piracy, and user rights for over a decade now. It's not like warnings about it have not been issued wherever this has been possible. Not everybody may have been reached by it, but I wouldn't be surprised if most people have come across such warnings and simply disregarded them for being โextremistโ or โparanoidโ. Relevant XKCD: xkcd.com/743/
It's 2023. Saying that people can't be expected to know what they're getting when paying for online content is akin to saying they can't be expected to understand what leasing or financing a car really means for ownership.
At least learning this lesson costs a lot less than having your vehicle repossessed.
Also, usually when you're expected to read a contract before you sign it, you and/or your lawyers get a say in requesting a change to the contract before you sign and agree to it.
You can't do that with a TOS or an EULA, so we're stuck with either never using the service, or "Agreeing" to their terms.
Doesn't mean that we actually think it's a good deal if we agree after reading the TOS or EULA.
While this isnโt uniquely American, is this even legal in jurisdictions with better consumer rights like the EU and Australia? Or are they simply not doing this in those jurisdictions where itโs illegal or a gray area?
#GabeN is right, since #Steam is seen as a desireable function and not a shitty #DRM to the point that developers get bullied and hated if they don't offer their game on it...
After all, #Valve may delist a game but they don't steal it from peoples' libraries!!!
it should be illegal, punishable by a painful death. If you call it a purchase, your button says "buy" or anything of that sort, it shouldn't matter what your licenses say - those mean something to users.
If you want to do this, you need to say Your Rental, Rent Now, etc.
Why I like having physical copies, but I remember hearing on the news awhile back that another group did this as well and removed the streamed/cloud "property"
Times like this, I'm glad Steam tends to let you keep games that are pulled from the store. For that reason, I still have Transformers Devastation, and some other things.
they even went rather cocky admitting that you purchased those, not "licensed" or something that would make you think it's more ok, cause you _technically_ did not buy anything (other than the right to watch it for as long as someone feels like it).
nous sommes vraiment dรฉsolรฉs mais, suite aux arrangements que nous avons passรฉs avec d'autres que vous, vous ne serez plus en mesure d'entrer dans la maison que vous avez achetรฉe. On vous remercie pour votre soutien inconditionnel. Bisou.
(Par contre, vous continuerez ร payer les impรดts de la maison vu que vous en รชtes l'heureux propriรฉtaire. Faut pas dรฉconner non plus hein.)
I think the honeymoon period of digital purchases is over and it's time to get some proper legislation about it. I find it highly misleading to say I'm "purchasing" something, when I'm really getting a temporary license with uncertain expiration date.
I still have a lot of PS2 DVDs in my closet. Maybe it is time to resurrect them. In few words, I will ditch the possibility of buying a PS4/5 and buy a modified game computer with physical DVDs. The old format is the best.
If they are no longer providing the service (ability to stream that title), then you should be able to get a refund. You paid them for the ability to stream that title indefinitely. They are still in business. So this is breach of contract. Stand by for a class action lawsuit?
it is a pointed reminder that you don't own a digital copy. The provider can remove it at any time. I buy physical media and can play it any time and on any device with a dvd or Blu-ray drive depending on the media.
Like everyone else says. Purchase movies and tv shows digitally, you're still stuck with it and can't do anything else with it. Purchasing a blu-ray disc or dvd is the way better option if applicable.
Edit: It also sucks because even if you purchase it digitally, you can't watch it if there are licensing issues or gets removed from a platform.
when I got this email this morning I was mad and I never even had any video purchases with Sony! Google also did this recently but they at least provided a link to download everything before it's removed. Sony is just stealing back everything they sold.
This should be classified as theft and be prosecuted as illegal, because it's literally the same as if Sony were to steal peoples' BluRay discs from their homes!
I consider it a moral obligation for any affected customer to demand not only theor money back but a DRM-free copy on top of that.
Shit like this is why people pirate, because honest consumer buying get shaftedbEVERY SINGLE TIME!
they even use the word โpurchaseโ. How is that not a reason to require a refund, perhaps on basis that it clear was not in fact โpurchasedโ in the first place.
I'm fairly confident that in the EU, and still AFAIK in the UK, this wouldn't be legal. In the UK this is the Unfair Contract Terms Act. The EU legislation is linked below. The schedule of unfair term includes
(d) permitting the supplier to retain sums paid where the latter decides not to perform the contract, without providing for compensation of an equivalent amount from the supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;
You have not purchased anything that remains part of someone else's system. You have just rented it for an indefinite period. That may not be right, but that's the way it is. Go back to DVDs.
Unfortunately that's how purchasing non physical media most of the time works, you don't buy a copy of the content but pay for a licence that can be revoked or changed at any time by the license giver. That's why I prefer companies like GOG for games, as long as I have a downloaded copy of the installer I can install and play it whenever I want, even if removed from the store.
Anyone remember yellow dog linux? You could run it on the PS3; indeed, part of my justification for buying the PS3 was that I could get a linux for the platform to mess around. Until Sony got cold feet and removed it after the fact, without warning or compensation. Sound familiar? That PS3 was the *very last* time I've given Sony a dime - they're thieves, simple as that. Of course they have their reasons to be thieves, so that makes it ok? I'll keep that in mind - sony thinks stealing is ok if you have a good reason.
I guess that is what happens when you dont own you media. I think we need to always think back to the physical world to see those problems. Streaming is NOT having your media in "your library". It is asking a company to manage your media for you. That company just lend it to your when you ask them. No matter if the button says "purchase" or "rent".
Well unless you have no DRM or at least easy to crack DRM, you don't actually get anything for your "purchase". We seriously need a ban on DRM. BTW Blurays and UHD Blurays are comparatively easy to rip.
Digital media aside, it is the Refund point that is the stickler here.
If indeed Discovery pulled the rug on Sony in turn, what Sony should do is 1. Write a more in debt explanation of what happened and of course 2. Immediately refund the purchases.
> We sincerely thank you for your continued support
That continued support is why no one has any option to move on and support anything else, while they continue robbing you (anyone wants to argue it's not?) without as much as an apology.
I think this is something that should go to court, just because their TOS says XYZ doesn't make it legally binding. I really think this idea of one time rental fees is bogus, if you pay once for it then it's a product, if you have to pay an ongoing fee then, and only then, is it a service that they have a right to cancel.
pak0st
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Ertain
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •In this case, piracy may be a necessary evil for watching the lost content.
Edit: apparently, I struck a nerve with this toot.
PastorOnRails
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Jeremy Bray
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •WanderingOwl
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Vile Lasagna
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •realspiffy
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Oblomov
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Infrastructures
xkcdJanne Moren
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •It's 2023. Saying that people can't be expected to know what they're getting when paying for online content is akin to saying they can't be expected to understand what leasing or financing a car really means for ownership.
At least learning this lesson costs a lot less than having your vehicle repossessed.
Alexander The 1st
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Also, usually when you're expected to read a contract before you sign it, you and/or your lawyers get a say in requesting a change to the contract before you sign and agree to it.
You can't do that with a TOS or an EULA, so we're stuck with either never using the service, or "Agreeing" to their terms.
Doesn't mean that we actually think it's a good deal if we agree after reading the TOS or EULA.
Vertana
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Leonardo Ferreira Fontenelle
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Kevin Karhan
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •#GabeN is right, since #Steam is seen as a desireable function and not a shitty #DRM to the point that developers get bullied and hated if they don't offer their game on it...
After all, #Valve may delist a game but they don't steal it from peoples' libraries!!!
Scott Michaud
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •mattmaison
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •T Kennedy
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Sigmund Judge
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •alpha1beta
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •it should be illegal, punishable by a painful death. If you call it a purchase, your button says "buy" or anything of that sort, it shouldn't matter what your licenses say - those mean something to users.
If you want to do this, you need to say Your Rental, Rent Now, etc.
Erick White
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Cadey Bunny
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •It's-a me Shaw
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Jerry Wham
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •nous sommes vraiment dรฉsolรฉs mais, suite aux arrangements que nous avons passรฉs avec d'autres que vous, vous ne serez plus en mesure d'entrer dans la maison que vous avez achetรฉe. On vous remercie pour votre soutien inconditionnel. Bisou.
(Par contre, vous continuerez ร payer les impรดts de la maison vu que vous en รชtes l'heureux propriรฉtaire. Faut pas dรฉconner non plus hein.)
Ari [APz] Sovijรคrvi
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •J. Blake
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Skoobie
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Asariel
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Michael Hamlin - ๐ณ๏ธโ๐
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Flaky (on Mastodon)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Darrin West
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •OdnetninI
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •sandywb14
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •sandywb14
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Bryan C Appley
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Shadow D. Wolf ๐ณ๏ธโ๐
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Gabriel Pettier
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Thomas Traynor
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Mark Ayers
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •William Gunn
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •tomcat
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Lord Caramac the Clueless, KSC
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Tetra
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Like everyone else says. Purchase movies and tv shows digitally, you're still stuck with it and can't do anything else with it. Purchasing a blu-ray disc or dvd is the way better option if applicable.
Edit: It also sucks because even if you purchase it digitally, you can't watch it if there are licensing issues or gets removed from a platform.
Andrew
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •This is Hell
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •excited for the mastodon rise
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Marcus Adams
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Playstation did the same thing to me way back with movies I had purchased directly from them.
With modern consoles you don't "own" anything, you're just renting a license to content for as long as they feel like making it available.
Alex Markley
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Kevin Karhan
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •This should be classified as theft and be prosecuted as illegal, because it's literally the same as if Sony were to steal peoples' BluRay discs from their homes!
I consider it a moral obligation for any affected customer to demand not only theor money back but a DRM-free copy on top of that.
Shit like this is why people pirate, because honest consumer buying get shaftedbEVERY SINGLE TIME!
#PiracyIsntTheftIfBuyingIsntOwning
nantucketlit
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Air Adam
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Cozy Tasia
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •enlightend
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •PointlessOne
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •haui
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •#classactionlawsuit
#OnlyBuyPhysicalMedia
#piracyisnttheftifbuyingisntowning
RevK
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Kathy E. Gill ๐บ๐ฆ
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Token Sane Person
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •I'm fairly confident that in the EU, and still AFAIK in the UK, this wouldn't be legal. In the UK this is the Unfair Contract Terms Act. The EU legislation is linked below. The schedule of unfair term includes
(d) permitting the supplier to retain sums paid where the latter decides not to perform the contract, without providing for compensation of an equivalent amount from the supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;
eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-contenโฆ
L_1993095EN.01002901.xml
eur-lex.europa.euPeter Fisher
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •DarkWolf
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Magiilaro
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •That's why I prefer companies like GOG for games, as long as I have a downloaded copy of the installer I can install and play it whenever I want, even if removed from the store.
Tonฤi Galiฤ
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Biggles
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •blackinbrampton
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Mike MC
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Piere Woehl
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •PP44
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •dogzilla
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •GrayGooGlitch
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Ciscogod
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Interpipes ๐
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Jinshei
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •D1g1talDrag0n
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Timo J
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Geoff Winkless
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •KT controls miniature worlds
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Kirils Solovjovs
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Christian Berger DECT 2763
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •BTW Blurays and UHD Blurays are comparatively easy to rip.
Baron Vonskinnback
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Ray Of Sunlight
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •what the duck
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •MegatronicThronBanks
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Phil M0OFX
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Very Human Robot
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •cultdev
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Doridian
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Why Not Zoidberg? ๐ฆ
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Digital media aside, it is the Refund point that is the stickler here.
If indeed Discovery pulled the rug on Sony in turn, what Sony should do is 1. Write a more in debt explanation of what happened and of course 2. Immediately refund the purchases.
AGRO TURBO.EXE SATAN ๐บ๐ฆ๐จ๐ฟ
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Gokul Das
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •> We sincerely thank you for your continued support
That continued support is why no one has any option to move on and support anything else, while they continue robbing you (anyone wants to argue it's not?) without as much as an apology.
Lord Tacitus ๐ฎ๐ช
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •"You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"
I think this is something that should go to court, just because their TOS says XYZ doesn't make it legally binding. I really think this idea of one time rental fees is bogus, if you pay once for it then it's a product, if you have to pay an ongoing fee then, and only then, is it a service that they have a right to cancel.
MrWeirdo729
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •#PiracyIsntTheftIfBuyingIsntOwning
#PiracyIsJustified
Ryuno-Ki
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •Kevin Karhan
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •youtube.com/watch?v=krXH8jXefqโฆ
Sony Steals Customers' Purchased Content - Piracy is COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED!
YouTubeVincent
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux ๐ง๐ฎ • • •