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in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

call it as it is - Sony didn't sell anything, they rented the content. Of course they didn't label it as such
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

In this case, piracy may be a necessary evil for watching the lost content.

Edit: apparently, I struck a nerve with this toot.

This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

“One thing that we have learned is that piracy is not a pricing issue. It’s a service issue.” - Gabe Newell, Valve, 2011.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

"If buying is not owning, then piracy can't be theft"
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

so Gaben solved it by providing a service, proving that servicing nazi pones, Hitler sex games, US war crimes games, and child exploitation / sex games isn't about pricing. Oh but you can opt out of sex games, lol. Wasn't old Gabe brought before congress recently to talk about exposing kids to hateful, exploitative shit? I've been on steam since 2004, and yeah, Gabe hosts nazi pones. We all know that.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

to me it also seems to be a reminder that if you buy something you don’t own physically, you buy something you don’t own physically.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

If your reply is blaming people for not reading the ToS: don’t be an ass. Companies make them difficult to parse for normal average people. When you purchase something, you expect it to be yours.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

they shouldn’t be able to call the button ‘buy’ if you’re just kinda sorta borrowing it.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

while it's quite common knowledge that ANY digital product you buy (that depends on a platform for its use) is *always* going to have its availability limited to whatever the platform it's served on, they should state it way more clearly, because that's plain abusive to be honest
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

that's true, but up to a point. The ephemeral nature of these services has been one of the key topics of discussion about DRM, piracy, and user rights for over a decade now. It's not like warnings about it have not been issued wherever this has been possible. Not everybody may have been reached by it, but I wouldn't be surprised if most people have come across such warnings and simply disregarded them for being “extremist” or “paranoid”. Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/743/
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

It's 2023. Saying that people can't be expected to know what they're getting when paying for online content is akin to saying they can't be expected to understand what leasing or financing a car really means for ownership.

At least learning this lesson costs a lot less than having your vehicle repossessed.

This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Also, usually when you're expected to read a contract before you sign it, you and/or your lawyers get a say in requesting a change to the contract before you sign and agree to it.

You can't do that with a TOS or an EULA, so we're stuck with either never using the service, or "Agreeing" to their terms.

Doesn't mean that we actually think it's a good deal if we agree after reading the TOS or EULA.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Companies have turned up the heat very slowly, so the average consumer would get used to the idea that we never actually “own” anything, we just rent all of it (especially media and culture) from corporate gatekeepers for all eternity. And what’s sad is it has absolutely worked, as most people have abandoned purchases for streaming services and “game passes”.

Now comes the point where they start quietly revoking the digital media licenses we purchased, forcing us to rent forever.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

While this isn’t uniquely American, is this even legal in jurisdictions with better consumer rights like the EU and Australia? Or are they simply not doing this in those jurisdictions where it’s illegal or a gray area?
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

also, we can't just avoid using anything with any terms we are not 100% happy with
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

#GabeN is right, since #Steam is seen as a desireable function and not a shitty #DRM to the point that developers get bullied and hated if they don't offer their game on it...

After all, #Valve may delist a game but they don't steal it from peoples' libraries!!!

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Ironically, this (retroactively removing copies from your paying customers) is closer to theft than copyright infringement is.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

it should be illegal, punishable by a painful death. If you call it a purchase, your button says "buy" or anything of that sort, it shouldn't matter what your licenses say - those mean something to users.

If you want to do this, you need to say Your Rental, Rent Now, etc.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Why I like having physical copies, but I remember hearing on the news awhile back that another group did this as well and removed the streamed/cloud "property"
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Times like this, I'm glad Steam tends to let you keep games that are pulled from the store. For that reason, I still have Transformers Devastation, and some other things.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

they even went rather cocky admitting that you purchased those, not "licensed" or something that would make you think it's more ok, cause you _technically_ did not buy anything (other than the right to watch it for as long as someone feels like it).
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

nous sommes vraiment désolés mais, suite aux arrangements que nous avons passés avec d'autres que vous, vous ne serez plus en mesure d'entrer dans la maison que vous avez achetée. On vous remercie pour votre soutien inconditionnel. Bisou.

(Par contre, vous continuerez à payer les impôts de la maison vu que vous en êtes l'heureux propriétaire. Faut pas déconner non plus hein.)

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

I think the honeymoon period of digital purchases is over and it's time to get some proper legislation about it. I find it highly misleading to say I'm "purchasing" something, when I'm really getting a temporary license with uncertain expiration date.
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

License vs ownership. The digital age of convenience has a catch. Pirate or accept your fate.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

I still have a lot of PS2 DVDs in my closet. Maybe it is time to resurrect them. In few words, I will ditch the possibility of buying a PS4/5 and buy a modified game computer with physical DVDs. The old format is the best.
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

IIRC if you buy something on Qobuz, you keep it. I have yet for them to prove that and I hope they don't need to.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

If they are no longer providing the service (ability to stream that title), then you should be able to get a refund. You paid them for the ability to stream that title indefinitely. They are still in business. So this is breach of contract. Stand by for a class action lawsuit?
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

That is why I do not like "rental" and I prefer "owning". But the whole world has move to renting things instead of owning them...
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

My 20 something CS daughter buys dvds. She has a huge mistrust of streaming services.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

the digital age has so many pitfalls.

This is why I still buy records, books, and dvd's.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

it's stuff like this that has me going back to bluray purchases for content I like well enough to buy
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

If they can take away what you "bought", then that's not what a purchase means.

That's a walking lawsuit.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

it is a pointed reminder that you don't own a digital copy. The provider can remove it at any time. I buy physical media and can play it any time and on any device with a dvd or Blu-ray drive depending on the media.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

The hell we've been given when the Buy button was able to replace "Rent", but they kept the same terms.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

In a world where words have no fixed meaning _purchase_ can mean whatever I am powerful enough to make it mean.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

capitalism is a cancer on society. What a flagrant abuse of ill-gotten power. We need to find a way to no longer be tethered to these abusive brands and their stupid "services"
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Same with Kindle books, Steam games, etc. You don't own it, you're just renting.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Like everyone else says. Purchase movies and tv shows digitally, you're still stuck with it and can't do anything else with it. Purchasing a blu-ray disc or dvd is the way better option if applicable.

Edit: It also sucks because even if you purchase it digitally, you can't watch it if there are licensing issues or gets removed from a platform.

This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

when I got this email this morning I was mad and I never even had any video purchases with Sony! Google also did this recently but they at least provided a link to download everything before it's removed. Sony is just stealing back everything they sold.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Playstation did the same thing to me way back with movies I had purchased directly from them.

With modern consoles you don't "own" anything, you're just renting a license to content for as long as they feel like making it available.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

“we thank you for your continued support” … like it was a charity donation instead of a purchase.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

This should be classified as theft and be prosecuted as illegal, because it's literally the same as if Sony were to steal peoples' BluRay discs from their homes!

I consider it a moral obligation for any affected customer to demand not only theor money back but a DRM-free copy on top of that.

Shit like this is why people pirate, because honest consumer buying get shaftedbEVERY SINGLE TIME!

#PiracyIsntTheftIfBuyingIsntOwning

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

On my platform, any of the e-books may be downloaded as a ZIP folder for offline reading.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Amazon has done this twice last year. It's time to go back to just buying dvds
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

because, as warned since online services started to be a thing, you do not own what you buy, you just license it and licenses can be revoked.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

you don't purchase goods but time constricted rights - this applies to any online platforms
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

they even use the word “purchase”. How is that not a reason to require a refund, perhaps on basis that it clear was not in fact “purchased” in the first place.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

I'm fairly confident that in the EU, and still AFAIK in the UK, this wouldn't be legal. In the UK this is the Unfair Contract Terms Act. The EU legislation is linked below. The schedule of unfair term includes

(d) permitting the supplier to retain sums paid where the latter decides not to perform the contract, without providing for compensation of an equivalent amount from the supplier where the latter is the party cancelling the contract;

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:31993L0013

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

what’s nuts is that customers keep accepting the EULAs that explicitly allow them to do this.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

You have not purchased anything that remains part of someone else's system. You have just rented it for an indefinite period. That may not be right, but that's the way it is. Go back to DVDs.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

🏴‍☠️ 🏴‍☠️ 🏴‍☠️ 🏴‍☠️ 🏴‍☠️ 🏴‍☠️
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Unfortunately that's how purchasing non physical media most of the time works, you don't buy a copy of the content but pay for a licence that can be revoked or changed at any time by the license giver.
That's why I prefer companies like GOG for games, as long as I have a downloaded copy of the installer I can install and play it whenever I want, even if removed from the store.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Anyone remember yellow dog linux? You could run it on the PS3; indeed, part of my justification for buying the PS3 was that I could get a linux for the platform to mess around. Until Sony got cold feet and removed it after the fact, without warning or compensation. Sound familiar? That PS3 was the *very last* time I've given Sony a dime - they're thieves, simple as that. Of course they have their reasons to be thieves, so that makes it ok? I'll keep that in mind - sony thinks stealing is ok if you have a good reason.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

I guess that is what happens when you dont own you media. I think we need to always think back to the physical world to see those problems. Streaming is NOT having your media in "your library". It is asking a company to manage your media for you. That company just lend it to your when you ask them. No matter if the button says "purchase" or "rent".
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Yarr, I can think of a way you can keep your content and not be forced to pay for yet another subscription...
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

"WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY PIRACY IS SO ATTRACTIVE" some industry executive, somewhere
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

this is exactly why I buy hard copies and rip them to my own digital library.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

What shocks me is that Sony—producers of one of HBO’s biggest hits this year—clearly doesn’t have enough market strength to prevent it.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Well unless you have no DRM or at least easy to crack DRM, you don't actually get anything for your "purchase". We seriously need a ban on DRM.
BTW Blurays and UHD Blurays are comparatively easy to rip.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

for this very reason I will never pay a subscription for anything, because you are not buying it, you are renting it.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Physical media or files on your own hard drive with no DRM. Everything else is owned by the man.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

likely there will be a class action lawsuit and some minor refunds, largely benefitting the lawyers who worked the suit.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

sadly, I consider most any digital content I have as being rented unless I can make a backup to my own storage. Even then with things like online games, it's expected that it's ephemeral.
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

At this point, they should be legally required to refer to them as "long-term rentals" <.<
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Digital media aside, it is the Refund point that is the stickler here.

If indeed Discovery pulled the rug on Sony in turn, what Sony should do is 1. Write a more in debt explanation of what happened and of course 2. Immediately refund the purchases.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

> We sincerely thank you for your continued support

That continued support is why no one has any option to move on and support anything else, while they continue robbing you (anyone wants to argue it's not?) without as much as an apology.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

"You'll own nothing and you'll be happy"

I think this is something that should go to court, just because their TOS says XYZ doesn't make it legally binding. I really think this idea of one time rental fees is bogus, if you pay once for it then it's a product, if you have to pay an ongoing fee then, and only then, is it a service that they have a right to cancel.

in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

@drewdevault so it is probably the best to just stick to the classic media, which is less and less available... 😢
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

Remember: #Piracy is an act of self- and mutual defense!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krXH8jXefqE
in reply to Liam @ GamingOnLinux 🐧🎮

What Sony did just reminded us about the ownership of digital items we purchased. And it’s time to pay more attention to drm-free content.

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