Substack CEO Chris Best Doesn’t Realize He’s Just Become The Nazi Bar by Mike Masnick. It’s important to look at this when we think about nostr. Now before you jump to say Mike’s pro-censorship, remember he wrote the very influential piece on social media: Protocols, Not Platforms: A Technological Approach to Free Speech*
Take a read, I’m curious what folks think? How do we create spaces where we can both have free speech and be able to kick the nazis out of the bar?
* https://knightcolumbia.org/content/protocols-not-platforms-a-technological-approach-to-free-speech
Substack CEO Chris Best Doesn’t Realize He’s Just Become The Nazi Bar
I get it. I totally get it. Every tech dude comes along and has this thought: “hey, we’ll be the free speech social media site. We won’t do any moderation beyond what’s required.” Even Twitter init…Techdirt
TonyGiorgio
in reply to Rabble • • •"And a centralized system that doesn’t do trust & safety… is the Nazi bar"
I think that's why this works. Also the Nazi bar is already here its called mostr and everyone avoids it on their own just fine while it is allowed to exist on top of nostr.
Rabble
in reply to TonyGiorgio • • •So it’s interesting, I hated Mostr and definitely see it as the source of most hate speech & abusive behavior on Nostr. Yet at the same time, I’ve really enjoyed being able to follow people and have conversations with my friends from the fediverse.
I think we need to think about the AP gateways and how we probably need multiple to reflect how the fediverse itself is governed. If somebody starts pushing content from nostr through mostr to users on fediverse servers that activily moderate who they federate with, we’ll see mostr get defederated.
Strypey
in reply to Rabble • • •> If somebody starts pushing content from nostr through mostr to users on fediverse servers that activily moderate who they federate with, we’ll see mostr get defederated
I've heard noises along these lines. I think it would be a good idea for a diverse range of bridges to exist, with mods who are opinionated about what kind of traffic passes over them.
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@5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1
Strypey
in reply to Strypey • • •It's inevitable that the really jumpy instances will block anything involving Nostr "coz Nazis", with no real political analysis or thought of any kind *sigh*. But as long as there are Nostr bridges that don't seem like a "Nazi bar", they'll likely be just as welcome as any edgy fedi instance.
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@5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1
Strypey
in reply to Strypey • • •PS Is there any way to get the Nostr bridges to render these horrible @83e4nhtedigfrh usernames into something human readable, like @rabble@mostr.pub or @TonyGiorgio@mostr.pub?
@alex
@76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa @5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1
Alex Gleason
in reply to Strypey • • •@5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1If I had supported NIP-19 identifiers in the first place, the names could look like "npub1wmr34t36fy03m8hvgl96zl3znndyzyaqhwmwdtshwmtkg03fetaqhjg240" instead, which isn't much better. I can't change them now because Mastodon doesn't support changing usernames.
The NIP-05 would in theory allow a name to look like "@rabble_at_iris.to@mostr.pub", but we can't do that either because a user's NIP-05 can and will change, and Mastodon doesn't allow people to change their username.
The Mostr bridge is compatible with Mastodon. In order to bridge Mastodon with Nostr, this is the only option. Mastodon can allow people to change their username, like Pleroma, then we can update the bridge. Or they can change the way they format mentions in the web UI like Soapbox does, which has full support for Nostr usernames. This is a matter of the Nostr bridge either not existing at all, or Mastodon changes something.
eris
in reply to Alex Gleason • • •Alex Gleason
in reply to eris • • •Rabble
in reply to Alex Gleason • • •I think we need to add some web interface to mostr with nip-07 login. Some users might want to disable the bridge for their account.
I also wonder if we should figure out a way to have multiple mostr instances. They need to not step on each other. But it doesn’t feel very like either the fediverse or nostr to have a singleton. I’m not sure how it’d work, it’s just an idea I’m throwing out there.
H3rman
in reply to Rabble • • •Disabling the bridge would be fediblock on steroids.
Most people might have one or two bad interactions with people across the bridge and then block it not knowing that they're blocking ~4.5m accounts (admittedly not all unique users) with a huge range of diverse opinions and values.
eris
in reply to H3rman • • •Strypey
in reply to eris • • •> Once porn is illegal worldwide we need to gut all forms of blocking
This kind of hyperbolic attitude is precisely the reason some fedizens are looking sideways at the whole idea of Nostr bridges.
@alex @40dba08627a2f2c69c3031666149b567168f049894aa5c42203a3920a3de8483 @5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1 @76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa
H3rman
in reply to Strypey • • •Strypey
in reply to H3rman • • •> If people don't like one persons posts the answer is to block that user, not a bridge
I'm sympathetic to that position, but what if you're being dogpiled by accounts from one server? Blocking a server can be the only way to avoid playing whack-a-mole with an army of sockpuppets.
@alex @5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1 @76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa
H3rman
in reply to Strypey • • •I think you're transferring a fedi position to nostr.
The button being discussed wouldn't block a specific fedi instance, it would block the entirety of activitypub from nostr. I could actually see the utility in being able to filter at instance level i.e. pulling the sequence between the _ and the @ to block your instance mastodon.nzoss.nz but once again even then, while better than blocking the bridge we are still transferring one of the worst parts of fedi to nostr.
If you've ever seen a real dogpile you would know the most mentally ill people will happily create 27 different accounts on different open servers to attack their targets. If people want to attack a nostr user they're going to be able to create unlimited npubs directly on here for that purpose, it's literally even easier than what they do now on fedi.
Strypey
in reply to H3rman • • •> If people want to attack a nostr user they're going to be able to create unlimited npubs directly on here for that purpose
This is exactly why some fedi people are looking sideways at Mostr and the whole idea of unmoderated bridges.
@alex @5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1 @76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa
Strypey
in reply to Strypey • • •> while better than blocking the bridge we are still transferring one of the worst parts of fedi to nostr
This is another reason. For fedi folks, server-level moderation is not a bug it's a feature, and a crucial one.
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@alex @5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1 @76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa
Strypey
in reply to H3rman • • •> Disabling the bridge would be fediblock on steroids.
I think Rabble was referring to Nostr users disabling the bridge for their accounts. Am I barking up the wrong tree there @76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa?
@eris @5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1 @alex
Rabble
in reply to Strypey • • •Strypey
in reply to Alex Gleason • • •> This is a matter of the Nostr bridge either not existing at all, or Mastodon changes something
Not going to hold my breath waiting for that.
@5be6446aa8a31c11b3b453bf8dafc9b346ff328d1fa11a0fa02a1e6461f6a9b1 @76c71aae3a491f1d9eec47cba17e229cda4113a0bbb6e6ae1776d7643e29cafa
vagabond
in reply to Strypey • • •