in more IBM stuffs, til OS/2 for PowerPC (remember the RS/6000 ended up adopting it alongside CHRP) actually used a microkernel as well… interesting to see how it essentially was used as a hypervisor, not too differently from Mac OS’ nanokernel or Windows/386’s VxD/VMM https://archive.org/details/Sg244630
One problem with building things using state-of-the-art techniques is that sometimes those that look like they will be “the next big thing” turn out to be dead ends. Next thing you know…
There were three so-called personalities: stuff for the microkernel was “personality neutral”, whereas the OS/2 personality acted as the “dominant” one… and the “MVM personality” was also added to emulate x86 computers with MS-DOS and Windows.
It actually seemingly worked pretty well according to that article, but it was underwhelming compared to the initial promise of PowerPC computers that did it all, including superflexible, document-oriented OOP with Taligent (which TalOS… also had the exact same goals as Workplace OS???)
next up I’ll probably be taking a dive into OS/2 Warp, since I thought its OOP capabilities were more of a corporate thing… until I stumbled upon this by mistake https://www.stardock.com/products/od20/
pssst, if you have a full copy of Inside Taligent Technology, pls tell me so
glad to confirm my suspicions might be well-founded tho: “All in all, it looks like yet another failure due to C++ introducing unmanageable complexity throughout the system.“
Content warning: whatever, clicking on a link and going back made the text readable, here's a full quote https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Taligent-fail
I was the project lead on the IBM Microkernel. I did the technical analysis that was used to convince Taligent to use IBM’s Microkernel in place of their own internally-developed Opus microkernel. I subsequently moved to Taligent to work on the low-level tasking, synchronization, and memory management facilities for the Mach-based TalOS. I have a unique perspective on the failure of Taligent since I was a low-level player on both sides of the IBM-Taligent Microkernel struggles at one time or another. (Caveat: That doesn't mean anything I say is correct. These are all just personal opinions and observations, nothing more.)
Here a number of things that come to mind:
1. Joint ventures are hard. Apple and IBM entered into the deal, each with their own set of priorities and they were not necessarily aligned. Apple seemed to treat Taligent with benign neglect. IBM tended to give it too much attention at times. I'm sure that trying to keep the parents happy and engaged took considerable executive attention away from running Taligent as a viable independent entity.
2. IBM didn't really want a separate Taligent Operating System. The person in charge of IBM's Taligent strategy was also in charge of IBM's Workplace OS strategy, which was an IBM Microkernel (Mach) based OS that could run OS/2, AIX, and DOS personalities (VMs). A Pink personality was certainly given lip service to, but as time went on, it seemed that IBM was only interested in propagating Workplace OS with OS/2. In the months prior to Taligent abandoning its operating system, IBM made a play to force the TalOS group to switch to just writing device drivers for IBM's Workplace OS. They didn't succeed. And it was only a matter of time before TalOS was abandoned. I'm not privy to what was discussed in the C-level suite, but I cannot imagine IBM was wishing Taligent well with its OS.
3. What Taligent was attempting to do was unprecedented. It's class dependency diagrams were circular and hellacious. There was an architectural attitude that OO changed the rules and the type of layering of services used in other systems was out-of-date thinking. The issues created by these circular dependencies were serious and made startup and shutdown of the system impossible without some restructuring. Though we got the lower-levels of the system working on the IBM Microkernel and the upper layers (what would later be known as CommonPoint) were working on top of a compatibility layer on AIX, we never got TalOS put together as one piece.
4. The OO-based I/O driver model never got completed. This was partially due to political pressure from IBM trying to get us to drop the model and just adopt Workplace OS procedural drivers (essentially making Pink a personality on Workplace OS) and partially due to it just being a hard problem that needed more time to implement than the inter-company political runway allowed. That said, the I/O group did a remarkable job of getting parts of it working, even after the decision was made to kill the OS.
5. Worse than pressures from IBM over the direction of the OS work and the lagging schedule, Taligent was unable to find much demand in the market for a new OS. People loved the value that the upper layers of Pink would offer, but it seemed no one loved the idea of yet another operating system. With neither Apple nor IBM champing at the bit to sell TalOS-based systems, there was little reason to continue working on the OS.
Less than a year after Taligent dropped the OS to concentrate on CommonPoint, I left the company because my interest was in low-level systems. It was just too disheartening for me to stay.
Here are some of the reasons I think Taligent was unable to make CommonPoint successful:
1. The complexity of the frameworks. We used to joke that the frameworks were so powerful that you could write any program in three lines of code, but it would take you 6 months to figure out what those three lines were.
2. Changing priorities of Apple, IBM (and by that time HP) caused shifts in company outlook and direction.
3. Shortly after I left Taligent, the first CEO, Joe Guglielmi resigned. His replacement was Dick Guarino from IBM. Unfortunately, Dick Guarino died of a heart attack very soon after taking over. The instability at the top may have influenced how Taligent's parents viewed the company. But, I suspect the writing was on the wall with Joe G's departure. By spring of 1996, IBM had bought out Apple and HP, leaving Taligent as a wholly-owned subsidiary of IBM. At that point, I suspect IBM was merely looking to use whatever Taligent technology they liked in other IBM products.
Could Taligent have made CommonPoint a success had they had sufficient time and autonomy? That's a question that will never be answered.
I wonder how did these two (seemingly different) groups of people manage to get a hold on the OS/2 source code rights and why is it that in both cases it hasn’t resulted on any open sourcing
for context: they were made for the Macintosh II on (likely) the same Cray computer that was bought for the Aquarius RISC project, and were used as its promo material
So basically, you need to have an empty drive, and when you’re on the Logical Volume Management Tool, you should select the CD drive (for whatever reason) and ask it to create a new volume
NE2000 drivers do not come included with OS/2, odd considering every other popular network card from the time IS listed… but you can just create a floppy image that contains the drivers like this:
Interesting to see how much protagonism OS/2 got, particularly for PowerPC, but absolutely no direct or indirect mention of Workplace OS or Taligent as Windows 95 on Intel is already presumed to be the marketshare winner even before release
Special thanks to archive.org for hosting these episodes. Downloads of all these episodes and more can be found at: http://archive.org/details/computerchroni...
Worth noting that Computex '94 also featured another Apple spinoff, General Magic, as shown off on the Sony Magic Link – mobility was a thing that year
Also they said Windows 95 was not based on DOS lol
Oddly enough, if you have to change your hardware configuration, you either have to insert back your OS/2 CD or open either “Selective Install” or “Device Driver Install” from the “System Setup” folder
Interesting that I can immediately tell a quality improvement over Windows because of something as simple as relative icon positioning. Text also scales up instead of preserving the original size, which is something Windows cannot even do flawlessly to this day.
I think OS/2 was the only one which did this? X and Motif sure didn’t scale up, neither did Mac OS, GEM, PC/GEOS, AmigaOS Intuition, NeXTSTEP, Java AWT or any Windows toolkit I’m aware of. Maybe TalOS, but I sure cannot check that currently…
At first sight, OS/2 looks pretty boring. Just a Windows 95 copycat. However, there’s subtle things going on which can wrap your head around. For instance, here’s the Hardware Manager (the equivalent of NT’s Device Manager) opened up from both the file manager and the start menu… notice something odd?
In fact, while trying to get there, you might have noticed something on the “OS/2 System” window as well. You would think it’s a “My Computer” equivalent, but it’s not ‒ to start with, the drives are in a subfolder conveniently called “Drives”. But also, you might notice there’s an icon called “WarpCenter” that looks like it’s already open. Double clicking… makes the desktop flash, and that’s it. Right click it or hold Alt while (left) clicking tho, and you have the taskbar settings
Obviously, what’s going on is obvious: OS/2 treats all these things as OOP objects! Even if at a lower level they’re all PCI devices, HPFS files or some conventional data type on RAM, you can manipulate them as objects and they all work the same way! So, for instance, you could pick up a picture and drag it into your desktop as a shadow
…wait, I just created a shortcut, right? That’s all I’m getting out of it?
Nope! Notice, for instance, the “Convert to” dialog, which is specific to the filetype. The filetype, btw, is NOT determined by extension nor magic bytes. In fact, you can change it to whatever you feel like, even multiple filetypes at once!!!
And I mean, just imagine any other desktop of the time showing a thumbnail in the file manager…
At this point, the OOP nature of the desktop becomes unavoidable and clear: there’s also a “Become” tab… which lets you choose which “Workplace Shell” class it is! It’s literally casting a SOM class!
Here’s the explanation IBM gave to devs on their docs:
“Despite its promise, penetration of object-oriented technology to major commercial software products has progressed slowly because of certain obstacles.“
“The first obstacle that developers must confront is the choice of an object-oriented programming language.“
“The second obstacle […] is that, because different object-oriented languages and toolkits embrace incompatible models of what objects are and how they work, software developed using a particular language or toolkit is naturally limited“
“The System Object Model (SOM) is IBM’s solution to these problems.“
So just to compare, how much can you do on a vanilla OS/2 Warp system if you’re not a developer? Not a whole lot, but you can still get quite far. You might need to learn a thing or two about CONFIG.SYS in the process tho (see https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/OS/2_Warp_4:_New_Workplace_Shell)
Oh, and you can change every single icon in the system (but I don’t feel like it)
Immediately you can see virtual desktops, system monitors and system theme tweaks. Indeed, Object Desktop can modify the OS theme itself! But let’s keep going, shall we
I do have to say I have already found limitations tho: there’s no obvious way to e.g. create a toolbar shelf with the contents of a directory instead of “hardcoding” them one by one, neither WarpCenter nor Object Desktop’s Control Center allow you to customize what they contain (so no widgets), and color tweaking is awkward
OK, so back to Object Desktop. First things first, what pops up the most, the Control Center. It does kinda look like KDE 1 or NeXT’s dock. You can customize your section choices in the “Sections” tab (iknorite) of the object’s properties, either right clicking on the app file icon or the bar itself (because OS/2 makes that universal for all objects). You can also enable a titlebar on the Options tab and drag it around to snap it at a different border, including the top and bottom edges.
Also, I should look up Object Desktop’s docs, it MIGHT be possible to add custom widgets and I’m just not aware of it.
And in case it wasn’t obvious: you can move around the locations of the original items and the shadows will work just fine. Because it’s objecty and it uses an UID internally!
Resizing will NOT leave you with a bootable system. This is expected, because volume information was lost, so you’ll need to run LVM from e.g. the installation CD or recovery floppies http://www.os2voice.org/VNL/past_issues/VNL1100H/vnewsf5.htm
Worth mentioning that I’m doing A LOT of fooling around with OS/2 and it has yet to break (in a way which I didn’t expect) other than the first setup… which is funny considering its reputation for virtualization, but it does show how solid it was for its time
It helps that the CONFIG.SYS file acts as a sort of declaration for all the system components required to get the desktop to work, beat Nix by a couple decades haha yes
from what I’m reading the issue is most likely to do with either multithreading or SMP… which is not really helping, since the emulated CPU is a Pentium MMX and I have no idea how to fix the former
We need to build tests (and especially JS tests) in order to find a problem with unresponsive JS in FF 45 (see e.g. #176). Most tests have never been ported to OS/2 so I'm facing build breaks h...
OK, that ZIP worked, the Diamond Stealth 3D 3000 was detected at first try… however it does not support the resolutions the other drivers (generic GRADD and SciTech Display Doctor) do, even after running the DDC Display Setup (located at OS/2’s System Setup folder)… and yet no OpenGL
(I have definitely noticed that at least the SOMobjects and OpenDoc uninstallers do NOT clean up some files nor CONFIG.SYS, so this was definitely needed at the time!)
“Hardware acceleration for OpenGL on OS/2 doesn’t really exist right now. IBM has developed it, including drivers for the Omnicomp 3Demon SX88 adapter, but it seems you need a $25,000 OpenGL source license from silicon graphics to get access to it. And no graphics card vendors are currently making drivers for OpenGL on OS/2. Scitech has stated unofficially that they will be bringing hardware accelerated OpenGL to Windows, Linux and OS/2 pretty much simultaneously, but with them focusing on some great new 2D drivers for OS/2, that seems to be quite a ways off yet.“
Start writing games in OS/2 that are easy to port to multiple operating systems. In this introduction, Robert discusses some of the technologies available for OS/2 that would assist a game developer and how each relates to other popular platforms.
(also I could consider the ATI Mach64, since it’s compatible with both OS/2 and Rhapsody as well… it actually might even be the better performer https://vintage3d.org/cards.php)
gonna keep the S3 ViRGE/VX tho since I don’t expect GPU acceleration in OS/2 anymore and it’s the only one which supports 1600x1200 (the ATI seems to be limited to 1280x1024)
Describe the bug 86box program window closes mid-way through Windows XP Setup registering components. To Reproduce Steps to reproduce the behavior: Setup a Socket 8 virtual machine with a Gigabyte ...
Focus on that one last phrase. “we want you to […] develop the most incredible software this industry has ever seen“. Those are major words, even for your usual hype campaign. I wonder why they would use such words for OpenDoc
so far: just realized the K6-2+ can be upgraded to 550MHz aaaaaaaand… seems to behave just as fast as lower frequencies? also sound stutters? Weird
the K6-III+ ALSO works at 500MHz under certain motherboards… and yup, this one is DEFINITELY faster… except compile times remain the exact same so it’s not. Maybe I/O bottleneck?
I should have used some actual benchmarks, but I’m pretty sure a 500MHz K6-III+ should be faster than a Pentium II Overdrive at 333MHz, so I’m keeping it even if not recommending it due to the stutter (even if it only affects startup and shutdown for me)
I can see why people tend to prefer VisualAge 3: the output of the project is not one, but TWO folders. Except one of them is a project object, which believe it or not, IS a kind of folder object, no different from any other in OS/2.
And here’s the fanciest part about this: everything in OS/2 is so objecty that everything has… templates! That’s right, you can even create the templates using templates for extra templating, and it’s all as native and consistent as it gets!!!
Everything works in the exact same way. Everything is objects, created with templates, and with a properties panel. Every object can talk to each other through SOM. Objects talking to each other lets you extend objects themselves, adding functionality. Apps are objects made of objects too, so everything about this applies.
There’s one point at which you realize, why shouldn’t all documents work like this? Standardize it all so you can have documents made of objects that can do anything, on an app that is made of objects that can be extended at will.
OpenDoc: A New Standard for Compound Documents, a lecture by Kurt Piersol. The video was recorded in March 1994.From University Video Communications' catalog...
Anyway, this is ultimately what IBM and Apple aspired to do: after Microsoft betrayed IBM by stealing VMS and making their own kernel, IBM immediately called Apple and Motorola to join forces. The idea was that they could make their own standards that made all computers work the same transparently, and Apple and IBM would be on top of it all, hoping wide support and competition would make Microsoft and Intel’s efforts fail.
IBM would provide OS/2, SOM and POWER. Apple would provide Taligent and OpenDoc. Motorola would act as a fab for IBM. And they would all work towards a PC standard, CHRP.
No more worrying about CPU architectures. No more worrying about OSes. No more worrying about apps. The AIM alliance would do it all, and make it all work together for everyone.
OpenDoc’s role in all of this is to let you create documents, put literally any “parts” on it (they can be interactive too), and use it at will customizing your editor of choice, called a “container”… which you didn’t even have to pay for, as IBM had the IBM BaseContainer, Apple had CyberDog, and there also was the standard ODFContainer. And if your container supported it, you could even have multiple people using the same OpenDoc at once, acting as online collaborative editing
Hot take: all apps focused on functionality eventually act like operating systems because operating systems should already provide such functionality as part of the end user UI
I don’t know at which point Apple and IBM agreed the future of computers implied killing off the need for buying apps and managing them. But they apparently did.
Things get weirder, however, when talking Taligent and OS/2. IBM was somehow promising both were the future, and this made no sense.
Taligent aspired to be a fully-fledged OS to rule them all, based on a microkernel that would run other OSes inside, that just happened to ship with its own fully OOP frameworks with support for SOM and OpenDoc… but IBM already had OS/2, and as I mentioned above (https://fedi.xerz.one/notice/AOwQD1MagCbG7WEvWi), they wanted to upgrade it with the Workplace OS microkernel. Both TalOS and Workplace OS were based on Mach. It was clear IBM was not really interested in Taligent as a product, and wanted to push the stuff they already had instead.
Meanwhile, Apple seemed to want to ship TalOS as the successor to Mac OS at first, but after Taligent got delayed as Apple left it on its own, they eventually announced Copland as the new Mac OS 8, which would still support Taligent apps. That went well
Here’s about the only image we have of Taligent’s operating system. It does look like a mix of MacOS, OS/2, and also looks suspiciously similar to BeOS. No apps to be seen, btw: it was all about People, Places and Things™, with inboxes that were actual folders, printers that behaved just like any other object, and with templates being called “stationeries”.
In the end, sadly, things were destined to end up poorly. Either Apple and IBM realized the business model did not benefit them, or they got stuck in the infighting, or both. Users didn’t care about OpenDoc much while it was available, and Workplace OS shipped for CHRP computers way too late. Taligent just got absorbed by IBM, and its CommonPoint framework was deemed too hard to use. Steve Jobs, who had been selling NeXTSTEP the whole time, ended up “putting a bullet in the head of OpenDoc“ because he “didn’t think it was great technology“. https://donhopkins.medium.com/focusing-is-about-saying-no-steve-jobs-wwdc-97-ff0174c171d0
Kinda dodged a bullet (considering that OpenDoc was based on cooperative multitasking, TalOS was intentionally made with circular dependencies, there was no serious security model whatsoever for either one, C++ was an overall mess, and Sun came up with Jav... show more
In the end, sadly, things were destined to end up poorly. Either Apple and IBM realized the business model did not benefit them, or they got stuck in the infighting, or both. Users didn’t care about OpenDoc much while it was available, and Workplace OS shipped for CHRP computers way too late. Taligent just got absorbed by IBM, and its CommonPoint framework was deemed too hard to use. Steve Jobs, who had been selling NeXTSTEP the whole time, ended up “putting a bullet in the head of OpenDoc“ because he “didn’t think it was great technology“. https://donhopkins.medium.com/focusing-is-about-saying-no-steve-jobs-wwdc-97-ff0174c171d0
Kinda dodged a bullet (considering that OpenDoc was based on cooperative multitasking, TalOS was intentionally made with circular dependencies, there was no serious security model whatsoever for either one, C++ was an overall mess, and Sun came up with Java which had the advantage of a VM), but nothing replaced the void.
Jobs explained (and performed) his side of the story in this fascinating and classic WWDC’97 video: “Focusing is about saying no.” Jobs: (shakes) Yeah? (stands) Well, let me say something that’s sort…
A whole decade of tech had been wasted. It essentially went nowhere, not just within Taligent, IBM and Apple, but everywhere you looked at. The people involved with it were all pretty frustrated. Eventually they had to move on, but they all clearly loved what they worked on.
PCMag.com is a leading authority on technology, delivering Labs-based, independent reviews of the latest products and services. Our expert industry analysis and practical solutions help you make better buying decisions and get more from technology.
I’m gonna try to update the thread as soon as I can find more about CommonPoint, learn about its relationship with IOC, and get a working dev environment for OpenDoc in OS/2.
Meanwhile, I’ll finish off with this: while trying to research, I came across this article. I was following the footsteps of someone else who had given up before me. I largely agree with it:
“Rather than buying “an application” from a vendor that shows me their beautiful, crafted icon until I’m ready to launch it, I buy a capability that extends the ways in which I can interact with the People, Places and Things represented on my computer. My computer does not become Photoshop, rather I gain Photoshopness by adding it to my computer.
It seems that any shift from app-centric to goal-centric computer interfaces – PPT, OpenDoc/OLE, NeXT Services, scripting/automation tools, the spatial desktop – is going to violate the Fundamental Paradox of App Marketing: my app is so intuitive and easy to use that it just fades into the backdrop of ... show more
I’m gonna try to update the thread as soon as I can find more about CommonPoint, learn about its relationship with IOC, and get a working dev environment for OpenDoc in OS/2.
Meanwhile, I’ll finish off with this: while trying to research, I came across this article. I was following the footsteps of someone else who had given up before me. I largely agree with it:
“Rather than buying “an application” from a vendor that shows me their beautiful, crafted icon until I’m ready to launch it, I buy a capability that extends the ways in which I can interact with the People, Places and Things represented on my computer. My computer does not become Photoshop, rather I gain Photoshopness by adding it to my computer.
It seems that any shift from app-centric to goal-centric computer interfaces – PPT, OpenDoc/OLE, NeXT Services, scripting/automation tools, the spatial desktop – is going to violate the Fundamental Paradox of App Marketing: my app is so intuitive and easy to use that it just fades into the backdrop of your life, however it must never fade so far that you do not see its name or its icon, and are not reminded who we are and how much we help you.“
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Sg244630 OS/2 Warp ( Power PC Edition) First Look : IBM : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Internet ArchiveXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •it also is #cringe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noEHHB6rnMI
Windows 386 Commercial - The Worst Microsoft Advertisement EVER!
YouTubeXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •The OS/2 Operating System Didn’t Die… It Went Underground
HackadayXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •OS/2 Warp, PowerPC Edition | OS/2 Museum
www.os2museum.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •It actually seemingly worked pretty well according to that article, but it was underwhelming compared to the initial promise of PowerPC computers that did it all, including superflexible, document-oriented OOP with Taligent (which TalOS… also had the exact same goals as Workplace OS???)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •“In mid-1991, Apple CEO John Sculley bragged that Apple had written 1.5 million lines of code for Pink.“ I mean WHAT
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent#Pink_system
(which further makes the duplicity between it and Workplace OS absurd)
defunct 1990s corporation
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Definitely not the same however.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •What Does It Take To Run DOOM On A $10,000 IBM RS/6000 From 2001?
YouTubeXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Stardock Corporation
www.stardock.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •OS/2 Site - Util - Object Desktop
www.os2site.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Workplace OSs: Doors to the Future - EDM2
www.edm2.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •pssst, if you have a full copy of Inside Taligent Technology, pls tell me so
glad to confirm my suspicions might be well-founded tho: “All in all, it looks like yet another failure due to C++ introducing unmanageable complexity throughout the system.“
https://www.dei.isep.ipp.pt/~alex/OSes.htm
Review of Operating Systems
www.dei.isep.ipp.ptXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Content warning: whatever, clicking on a link and going back made the text readable, here's a full quote https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Taligent-fail
Here a number of things that come to mind:
1. Joint ventures are hard. Apple and IBM entered into the deal, each with their own set of priorities and they were not necessarily aligned. Apple seemed to treat Taligent with benign neglect. IBM tended to give it too much attention at times. I'm sure that trying to keep the parents happy and engaged took considerable executive attention away from running Taligent as a viable independent entity.
2. IBM didn't really want a separate Taligent Operating System. The person in charge of IBM's Taligent strategy was also in charge of IBM's Workplace OS strategy, which was an IBM Microkernel (Mach) based OS that could run OS/2, AIX, and DOS personalities (VMs). A Pink personality was certainly given lip service to, but as time went on, it seemed that IBM was only interested in propagating Workplace OS with OS/2. In the months prior to Taligent abandoning its operating system, IBM made a play to force the TalOS group to switch to just writing device drivers for IBM's Workplace OS. They didn't succeed. And it was only a matter of time before TalOS was abandoned. I'm not privy to what was discussed in the C-level suite, but I cannot imagine IBM was wishing Taligent well with its OS.
3. What Taligent was attempting to do was unprecedented. It's class dependency diagrams were circular and hellacious. There was an architectural attitude that OO changed the rules and the type of layering of services used in other systems was out-of-date thinking. The issues created by these circular dependencies were serious and made startup and shutdown of the system impossible without some restructuring. Though we got the lower-levels of the system working on the IBM Microkernel and the upper layers (what would later be known as CommonPoint) were working on top of a compatibility layer on AIX, we never got TalOS put together as one piece.
4. The OO-based I/O driver model never got completed. This was partially due to political pressure from IBM trying to get us to drop the model and just adopt Workplace OS procedural drivers (essentially making Pink a personality on Workplace OS) and partially due to it just being a hard problem that needed more time to implement than the inter-company political runway allowed. That said, the I/O group did a remarkable job of getting parts of it working, even after the decision was made to kill the OS.
5. Worse than pressures from IBM over the direction of the OS work and the lagging schedule, Taligent was unable to find much demand in the market for a new OS. People loved the value that the upper layers of Pink would offer, but it seemed no one loved the idea of yet another operating system. With neither Apple nor IBM champing at the bit to sell TalOS-based systems, there was little reason to continue working on the OS.
Less than a year after Taligent dropped the OS to concentrate on CommonPoint, I left the company because my interest was in low-level systems. It was just too disheartening for me to stay.
Here are some of the reasons I think Taligent was unable to make CommonPoint successful:
1. The complexity of the frameworks. We used to joke that the frameworks were so powerful that you could write any program in three lines of code, but it would take you 6 months to figure out what those three lines were.
2. Changing priorities of Apple, IBM (and by that time HP) caused shifts in company outlook and direction.
3. Shortly after I left Taligent, the first CEO, Joe Guglielmi resigned. His replacement was Dick Guarino from IBM. Unfortunately, Dick Guarino died of a heart attack very soon after taking over. The instability at the top may have influenced how Taligent's parents viewed the company. But, I suspect the writing was on the wall with Joe G's departure. By spring of 1996, IBM had bought out Apple and HP, leaving Taligent as a wholly-owned subsidiary of IBM. At that point, I suspect IBM was merely looking to use whatever Taligent technology they liked in other IBM products.
Could Taligent have made CommonPoint a success had they had sufficient time and autonomy? That's a question that will never be answered.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Also interesting that issues went beyond mere memory management and they actually had created circular dependency hell by design
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •but before that, here’s something I found out: eComStation has been essentially dead for the last decade, but there’s an alternative now
…that is still oddly expensive
https://www.arcanoae.com/
Home - Arca Noae
Arca Noae LLCXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •but I *did* get these
https://archive.org/details/thepowerofframeworks
https://archive.org/details/taligentsguideto0000unse
https://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/95/HPL-95-106.pdf
https://archive.org/details/IBMTaligent (there's more than 1 PDF in here)
The Power of Frameworks : Taligent : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Internet ArchiveXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •the very first thing I noticed in the very first page of the very first book
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •WHERE THE HELL IS THE ISO
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Index of /Potel/Portfolio/RayTracedImages
www.wildcrest.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
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in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Software License
www.ibm.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •- Disabled serial support
- No networking during system install
- Display settings left as pure VGA
…it always refuses to boot…?Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •COM
line usingTEDIT
but, if it is a display issue, I have no idea how to address itXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •it’s the sound card…
had to find out using Alt-F2 (if you use GNOME you might have to go to settings to disable the “Show the run command prompt” hotkey)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •TEDIT
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •huh
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •it worked
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •it’s the World Wide Web
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •(also isn’t that Java internationalization class a port of Taligent’s…?)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •nice
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Interesting to see how much protagonism OS/2 got, particularly for PowerPC, but absolutely no direct or indirect mention of Workplace OS or Taligent as Windows 95 on Intel is already presumed to be the marketshare winner even before release
The Computer Chronicles - Comdex Special (1994)
YouTubeXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •CSDL | IEEE Computer Society
www.computer.orgXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Also they said Windows 95 was not based on DOS lol
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Oddly enough, if you have to change your hardware configuration, you either have to insert back your OS/2 CD or open either “Selective Install” or “Device Driver Install” from the “System Setup” folder
huh
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Where’s OpenDoc
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •for now tho, the reason I’m playing around with OS/2
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Nope! Notice, for instance, the “Convert to” dialog, which is specific to the filetype. The filetype, btw, is NOT determined by extension nor magic bytes. In fact, you can change it to whatever you feel like, even multiple filetypes at once!!!
And I mean, just imagine any other desktop of the time showing a thumbnail in the file manager…
Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Here’s the explanation IBM gave to devs on their docs:
“Despite its promise, penetration of object-oriented technology to major commercial software products has progressed slowly because of certain obstacles.“
“The first obstacle that developers must confront is the choice of an object-oriented programming language.“
“The second obstacle […] is that, because different object-oriented languages and toolkits embrace incompatible models of what objects are and how they work, software developed using a particular language or toolkit is naturally limited“
“The System Object Model (SOM) is IBM’s solution to these problems.“
Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •So basically, it’s IBM’s COM
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Could it be
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Stardock Object Desktop 2.0 OS/2 : Stardock : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
Internet ArchiveXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Stardock: Object Desktop FAQ
www.stardock.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Oh, and you can change every single icon in the system (but I don’t feel like it)
OS/2 Warp 4: New Workplace Shell - OS2World.Com Wiki
www.os2world.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Also, I should look up Object Desktop’s docs, it MIGHT be possible to add custom widgets and I’m just not aware of it.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •It’s definitely a powerful file manager for the time, particularly because it has integrated file preview beyond just thumbnails https://www.stardock.com/products/od20/info_od20.html
Stardock Systems: Object Desktop 2.0
www.stardock.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Voice Newsletter 11/2000 -LVM, FDISK and Partition Magic
www.os2voice.orgXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Alex Taylor: OS/2 Logical Volume Manager
www.altsan.orgXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •How to Install Firefox on Warp 4.52 - OS2World.Com Wiki
www.os2world.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •86box can’t get any better SIMD than MMX…
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •yes
Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •(worth noting no mention of Sun, as they opted for OPENSTEP, nor of TalOS, since this came out pretty late in Taligent history) (®)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Does anyone in the room know what are compound documents or Task Centered Computing™?
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •I’ll have to make a shitton of posts about OLE, SOM, OpenDoc, Taligent, compound documents and tasks, later to be condensed into a blogpost
starting tomorrow
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •I have no idea why but OS/2 app installers keep freezing while opening up
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •not only it’s IBM, but uh… reasons
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •and also VisualAge C++ lol
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Stardock Systems: Object Desktop 2.0
www.stardock.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •SOMRAS.DLL
constantly)Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •It helps that the CONFIG.SYS file acts as a sort of declaration for all the system components required to get the desktop to work, beat Nix by a couple decades haha yes
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •(also yup, that confirms OS/2’s S3 implementation is broken)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •…it’s become too late tho x3
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •https://www.os2world.com/forum/index.php?topic=1841.0 https://www.os2site.com/sw/upgrades/patches/index.html
C0000005 error
www.os2world.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Build tests · Issue #247 · bitwiseworks/mozilla-os2
GitHubXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •“Hardware acceleration for OpenGL on OS/2 doesn’t really exist right now. IBM has developed it, including drivers for the Omnicomp 3Demon SX88 adapter, but it seems you need a $25,000 OpenGL source license from silicon graphics to get access to it. And no graphics card vendors are currently making drivers for OpenGL on OS/2. Scitech has stated unofficially that they will be bringing hardware accelerated OpenGL to Windows, Linux and OS/2 pretty much simultaneously, but with them focusing on some great new 2D drivers for OS/2, that seems to be quite a ways off yet.“
so it never happened?
http://www.os2ezine.com/v4n6/gameprog.htm
OS/2 e-Zine! - Multiplatform Game Programming in OS/2
www.os2ezine.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •OS2.GURU
en.ecomstation.ruXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •3d cards specifications
vintage3d.orgXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •OS/2 Warp 4: nope, it *almost* boots but then either 86box crashes or the system reboots
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Windows XP SP2 Setup crashes on "Registering components" on Pentium II Overdrive · Issue #1192 · 86Box/86Box
GitHubXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Gigabyte… first the Realtek network cards, then the exploding PSUs and now THIS!?
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •…….except the network card, because I forgot to set the IRQ and then the machine blew up and the partition table was lost????????
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •- Socket 8 machine
- Intel VS440FX
- Intel Pentium II Overdrive @ 333 Mhz
- 192 MB of RAM (max supported ootb by Rhapsody DR2, feel free to raise)
- HDD with up to 1023 cylinders, 2GB or higher recommended
- Diamond Stealth 3D 3000 PCI (S3 ViRGE/VX)
- Creative Sound Blaster 16
- SLiRP with Novell NE2000 ISA16 network card
- Standard PS/2 mouse (haven’t played with this yet)
If you want OS/2:- Install in order
- OS/2 Warp 4.52
- Leave the default graphics driver or pick SciTech Display Doctor
- Add Sound Blaster 16 manually (configure IRQ correctly!)
- NE2000 Microsoft driver (configure IRQ correctly!)
- Enable DHCP, leave DDNS disabled
- Some software might only reliably work with up to 256 colors
- Object Desktop 2.0 (see https://www.stardock.com/support_old/os2/od/odbug20/sec1.htm#question2 for errors!)
- Latest version of WarpIN
this will go into a proper webpage later someday eventually anytime sometimeStardock: Object Desktop FAQ
www.stardock.comLuna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •icc
but VisualAge C++ 4.0 comes withiccv4
… am I supposed to install both manually?Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •apparently I should be using
make2cfg
to converticc
makefiles foriccv4
… but there’s no such command on the VisualAge C++ command lineXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •why did I open the default command line instead of the VisualAge one…..
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •yeah more is coming I just got a few things going on
one of them is trying to permanently install Plop
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •they’re just about as fast lol
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •so far: just realized the K6-2+ can be upgraded to 550MHz aaaaaaaand… seems to behave just as fast as lower frequencies? also sound stutters? Weird
the K6-III+ ALSO works at 500MHz under certain motherboards… and yup, this one is DEFINITELY faster… except compile times remain the exact same so it’s not. Maybe I/O bottleneck?
I should have used some actual benchmarks, but I’m pretty sure a 500MHz K6-III+ should be faster than a Pentium II Overdrive at 333MHz, so I’m keeping it even if not recommending it due to the stutter (even if it only affects startup and shutdown for me)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •…can this even be considered an IDE
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •(sorry for the black scrollbars, that’s a driver bug when using the highest resolution)
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •you can tell this was made by an RPG fan
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Everything works in the exact same way. Everything is objects, created with templates, and with a properties panel. Every object can talk to each other through SOM. Objects talking to each other lets you extend objects themselves, adding functionality. Apps are objects made of objects too, so everything about this applies.
You see where I’m going?
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Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •That’s OpenDoc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FSFvEIpm5o
OpenDoc: A New Standard for Compound Documents, lecture by Kurt Piersol
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Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz! :blobcathearttrans: (@xerz@fedi.xerz.one)
fedi.xerz.oneXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •IBM would provide OS/2, SOM and POWER. Apple would provide Taligent and OpenDoc. Motorola would act as a fab for IBM. And they would all work towards a PC standard, CHRP.
No more worrying about CPU architectures. No more worrying about OSes. No more worrying about apps. The AIM alliance would do it all, and make it all work together for everyone.
Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •“‘And God went to say: “it is not good for the man to continue in a sea of Windows. I am going to create OpenDOC for him…’ “
https://www.os2world.com/wiki/index.php/OpenDOC,_a_Forgotten_Technology
OpenDOC, a Forgotten Technology - OS2World.Com Wiki
www.os2world.comXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Luna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Something something I was foreshadowing https://fedi.xerz.one/notice/APDsfsAg2FfoPfX2dU
Xerz! :blobcathearttrans: (@xerz@fedi.xerz.one)
fedi.xerz.oneXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Just imagine if this had worked out
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Taligent aspired to be a fully-fledged OS to rule them all, based on a microkernel that would run other OSes inside, that just happened to ship with its own fully OOP frameworks with support for SOM and OpenDoc… but IBM already had OS/2, and as I mentioned above (https://fedi.xerz.one/notice/AOwQD1MagCbG7WEvWi), they wanted to upgrade it with the Workplace OS microkernel. Both TalOS and Workplace OS were based on Mach. It was clear IBM was not really interested in Taligent as a product, and wanted to push the stuff they already had instead.
Meanwhile, Apple seemed to want to ship TalOS as the successor to Mac OS at first, but after Taligent got delayed as Apple left it on its own, they eventually announced Copland as the new Mac OS 8, which would still support Taligent apps. That went well
Xerz! :blobcathearttrans: (@xerz@fedi.xerz.one)
fedi.xerz.oneLuna Saphira Dragofelis 🐱 likes this.
Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Kinda dodged a bullet (considering that OpenDoc was based on cooperative multitasking, TalOS was intentionally made with circular dependencies, there was no serious security model whatsoever for either one, C++ was an overall mess, and Sun came up with Jav... show more
Kinda dodged a bullet (considering that OpenDoc was based on cooperative multitasking, TalOS was intentionally made with circular dependencies, there was no serious security model whatsoever for either one, C++ was an overall mess, and Sun came up with Java which had the advantage of a VM), but nothing replaced the void.
oh and yeah, HP was involved at one point lol
https://books.google.com/books?id=ZDgEAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA133&lpg=PA133 https://old.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc15/2_Mon/grimes.pdf
“Focusing is about saying no.” -Steve Jobs, WWDC ‘97
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Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •DOCUMENTED SAMPLES - Taligent Chat
root.cernXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •https://old.hotchips.org/wp-content/uploads/hc_archives/hc15/2_Mon/Disasters.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/19981205185028/http://www.best.com/%7Ezaveri/talumni/
Taligent Alumni Resource Page
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Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •PC Mag
Google BooksXerz~! :blobcathearttrans:
in reply to Xerz~! :blobcathearttrans: • • •Meanwhile, I’ll finish off with this: while trying to research, I came across this article. I was following the footsteps of someone else who had given up before me. I largely agree with it:
“Rather than buying “an application” from a vendor that shows me their beautiful, crafted icon until I’m ready to launch it, I buy a capability that extends the ways in which I can interact with the People, Places and Things represented on my computer. My computer does not become Photoshop, rather I gain Photoshopness by adding it to my computer.
It seems that any shift from app-centric to goal-centric computer interfaces – PPT, OpenDoc/OLE, NeXT Services, scripting/automation tools, the spatial desktop – is going to violate the Fundamental Paradox of App Marketing: my app is so intuitive and easy to use that it just fades into the backdrop of ... show more
Meanwhile, I’ll finish off with this: while trying to research, I came across this article. I was following the footsteps of someone else who had given up before me. I largely agree with it:
“Rather than buying “an application” from a vendor that shows me their beautiful, crafted icon until I’m ready to launch it, I buy a capability that extends the ways in which I can interact with the People, Places and Things represented on my computer. My computer does not become Photoshop, rather I gain Photoshopness by adding it to my computer.
It seems that any shift from app-centric to goal-centric computer interfaces – PPT, OpenDoc/OLE, NeXT Services, scripting/automation tools, the spatial desktop – is going to violate the Fundamental Paradox of App Marketing: my app is so intuitive and easy to use that it just fades into the backdrop of your life, however it must never fade so far that you do not see its name or its icon, and are not reminded who we are and how much we help you.“
https://www.sicpers.info/2017/12/computings-fundamental-principle-of-no-learning/
Computing’s fundamental Principle of No Learning | Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programmers
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