1.4 million lines of text in the systemd source vs 1721 in init.
Dunno, i eschew systemd whenever i can. Unfortunately lots of academic and research software wants to run on ubuntu or debian, so i've picked up a few tips and tricks to working with it.
I much prefer the simplicity of tossing a script in /etc/init.d/ and using that to control an individual service. systemctl and all of the various logging facilities (if that's the word) it incorporates feel "slower" on like HW.
I find it a little odd to actually remove something like that. The unixoid sphere has long been one of choice, I can choose my distro, my window manager, my shell, on some systems I can even choose my init (*cough* Gentoo). Every other distro wouldn't want to "have the balls" to restrict the users' choice. RHEL as part of offering full commercial support for everything contained in the base system, understandably, is slimmed down (sometimes too much IMHO). So yeah, AssHat doesn't want to provide X11 support anymore because it's effort. Every other distro should absolutely stick to providing – at least packaging – both. Why would they even remove a package that hasn't changed its build system in ages, and has a reasonable Changelog.… unless they are guaranteeing you to fix every bug you encounter (like RHEL).
This isn't about showing strength or progression. It's just captialism.
Deprecation is the first step of removal. This is part of removing it.
When was the last time you saw something being deprecated and not ever being removed? Sometimes the deprecation gets reverted when it is discovered that it was a mistake, something that will not happen with RHEL because, again, commercial interest.
They said the same about systemd and I'm still running OpenRC. They said the same about systemd and the migration is still ongoing and in some instance is a major pita.
You may dress it up as moving on to better tech, but it still takes away my choice in the process. You wouldn't deprecate bash and tell everyone to get comfy with zsh either, no, they coexist, because choice is something many people value.
@benaryorg There will always be the exceptions but the migration to systemd is basically done, with the exception of gentoo no major distros offer anything other than systemd. And no one is taking away your choice, you're always free to compile the code yourself but when we get too a tiny group of people who still care about X11 why should the distro bother compiling it for you. Bash and zsh are a very different case, zsh is mostly a superset of bash with a couple of inconsistencies but no one is aiming for zsh to become the standard
@benaryorg Let's use a different example, should distros keep supporting mir when it's been mostly abandoned by Canonical. By your logic yes because it's supporting your choice to use it but I'm pretty sure we'd both agree that it's a waste of time. Today that isn't the case for X11 but it is going to happen in the relatively near future, I expect the shift to occur around the time GNOME finally drops X11 support.
if you run an Nvidia GPU, you cant use RHEL cause wayland on nvidia crashes toast notifications and much higher cpu usage compared to xorg. Seems like a bad move imo
If more people start deprecating xorg, then hopefully those proprietary apps will start caring more about xdg portals, even if their app itself runs in xwayland
I think this is a very bold decision at this point. Wayland is far from stable at the moment. Most things work just fine, but a lot of things need to improve. KDE experience is buggy IMO.
MithicSpirit
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Cristian
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Brodie Robertson
in reply to Cristian • • •gerwingle
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •This is untrue, xenocara still lacks GUI isolation and many basic security features that Wayland includes by default,
https://isopenbsdsecu.re/mitigations/missing_features/
Missing mitigations | Is OpenBSD secure?
isopenbsdsecu.resanfierro
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •sarah 🦦
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Mateu le grille-pain ricain
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •The inconsistency of Japanese input kinda annoys me about KDE Wayland
I should check to see what the situation is on Gnome or maybe even try a tiling manager
1.E-12C
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Brodie Robertson
in reply to 1.E-12C • • •1.E-12C
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •1.4 million lines of text in the systemd source vs 1721 in init.
Dunno, i eschew systemd whenever i can. Unfortunately lots of academic and research software wants to run on ubuntu or debian, so i've picked up a few tips and tricks to working with it.
I much prefer the simplicity of tossing a script in /etc/init.d/ and using that to control an individual service. systemctl and all of the various logging facilities (if that's the word) it incorporates feel "slower" on like HW.
Brodie Robertson
in reply to 1.E-12C • • •cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty:
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •I find it a little odd to actually remove something like that. The unixoid sphere has long been one of choice, I can choose my distro, my window manager, my shell, on some systems I can even choose my init (*cough* Gentoo). Every other distro wouldn't want to "have the balls" to restrict the users' choice. RHEL as part of offering full commercial support for everything contained in the base system, understandably, is slimmed down (sometimes too much IMHO). So yeah, AssHat doesn't want to provide X11 support anymore because it's effort. Every other distro should absolutely stick to providing – at least packaging – both. Why would they even remove a package that hasn't changed its build system in ages, and has a reasonable Changelog.… unless they are guaranteeing you to fix every bug you encounter (like RHEL).
This isn't about showing strength or progression. It's just captialism.
Brodie Robertson
in reply to cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty: • • •cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty:
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Brodie Robertson
in reply to cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty: • • •cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty:
in reply to cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty: • • •Deprecation is the first step of removal. This is part of removing it.
When was the last time you saw something being deprecated and not ever being removed?
Sometimes the deprecation gets reverted when it is discovered that it was a mistake, something that will not happen with RHEL because, again, commercial interest.
Brodie Robertson
in reply to cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty: • • •cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty:
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •They said the same about systemd and I'm still running OpenRC. They said the same about systemd and the migration is still ongoing and in some instance is a major pita.
You may dress it up as moving on to better tech, but it still takes away my choice in the process.
You wouldn't deprecate bash and tell everyone to get comfy with zsh either, no, they coexist, because choice is something many people value.
Brodie Robertson
in reply to cat://Katze :neocat_flag_agender: :battery_empty: • • •Brodie Robertson
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Man2Dev :idle:
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Tsugu
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •https://tenor.com/view/goodnight-bye-peace-see-ya-g2g-gif-5181030
Goodnight Bye GIF - Goodnight Bye Peace - Discover & Share GIFs
unknown (Tenor)RedCyberLizzie :heart_progress: :butterfly_trans: :flag_asexual:
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •deathbybandaid
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •mrscientific
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Yaksh Bariya
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •tootbrute
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Brodie Robertson
in reply to tootbrute • • •tootbrute
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •Brodie Robertson
in reply to tootbrute • • •Professor Code
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •LisPi
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •gerwingle
in reply to Brodie Robertson • • •