Thinking about tacking into FORTH for the permacomputer project.
BASIC is good for certain applications with software preservation, but I think perhaps the project calls for a mix of languages--a cross pollination.
FORTH may be a better approach to deal with memory limitations and code density.
I am reminded of how many vegans don't -actually- care about the animals or the environment or the science. they ONLY really care about the smug sense of superiority and rubbing how much better they think they are morally in everyone else faces.
They undermine every actual good argument they have by being so insufferable about it, it makes me want to buy up hundreds of steaks just to grill up and throw at them purely OUT OF SPITE.
I know there are reasonable good vegans out there who are humble and actually care and I have to the utmost respect for them, which is the main reason I don't do that.
like this
Animal eaters hate admitting that Plants are simply the better Total Package.
Credit: @ForksOverKnives
SF at a Halt
When Technology Goes Wrong....
#OurModernTimes #Waymo #SF #OOPS!
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Kartik Agaram
in reply to vidak • • •Did you look at tinylisp yet? merveilles.town/@akkartik/1155…
Forth is certainly more efficient in memory use. On the other hand, I get the sense you already like Lisp? He's already gotten this Lisp working on a pocket computer. That's some indication of fit for your purpose.
> BASIC is good for certain applications with software preservation
Only if the software you're preserving is BASIC programs? 😂
Kartik Agaram (@akkartik@merveilles.town)
Merveillesvidak
in reply to Kartik Agaram • • •Lisp is good, but I also have requirement of extreme memory limitations, in addition to type-in programs, right now.
Lisp will come in time, but I think FORTH might be the best avenue to explore.
Kartik Agaram
in reply to vidak • • •How little memory do you have? Notice that he did get it running on that pocket computer. The extras version has a 32KB heap by default.
I just spent a couple of days debugging a GC, and I appreciate even more now how rock solid tinylisp is in that respect. Trying to reproduce that is hard regardless of language, which is why I suggest using something good that already exists. Spend more time in the HLL, life is better there.
Devine Lu Linvega
in reply to Kartik Agaram • • •the author's pocket computer cannot run a recursive fizzbuzz higher than (fizzbuzz 22) because the boxing clips the maximum number of cells in the (env), even with tail recursion.
I've explored Tiny-lisp for the past couple of weeks and it is quite memory hungry, it's not a good fit for 16-bit systems, and even in 32-bit systems without doubles, it's a bit tight.
Kartik Agaram
in reply to Devine Lu Linvega • • •@neauoire Interesting!
Now this is an expert, @vidak. If you're already considering Forth then use Uxn as a well debugged thing that is proven in low mem conditions.
vidak
in reply to Devine Lu Linvega • • •@neauoire @akkartik 4 kilobytes, or 8 kilobytes system memory is about what i am looking at now.
in addition, pretty much all programs, utilities, etc will all come supplied on printed paper. i think lisp would be difficult to type in at 100+ lines.
unstructured basic is powerful in its own way, my main motivation is to try and get a text editor working with less effort--i seem to think that there may be powerful text editors written in FORTH that may be ported directly--on and distributed printed--to a potential system.
my main reasons for meandering so much through hardware is that i am trying to find the "easiest route to type-in programs". completely agree with you about living in the high level language land.
Devine Lu Linvega
in reply to vidak • • •wow, that IS limited.
Even the super limited forth editors had block editors, which might be a super fun rabbit hole to dive into, both you I think would appreciate this.
But 4kb, even for me is uncharted territory 😀
youtu.be/WMzSYwT60GI?si=XMn4ot…
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