As a long-time XFCE-user I can fully subscribe to the conclusion of this article: »non-GNOME GTK desktop environments need to work together to formulate an answer to the onslaught of libadwaita and the GNOME-ification of GTK. […] If they don’t, there won’t be an XFCE in a few years. What’s the point in developing XFCE if you’re at the mercy of whatever choices GNOME makes?« https://www.osnews.com/story/139512/linux-mint-non-gnome-gtk-desktop-environments-need-to-work-together-in-the-face-of-libadwaita/
#GNOME #XFCE #GTK #libadwaita
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
TheEvilSkeleton
in reply to Erik Wesselius • • •What do you mean?
Erik Wesselius
in reply to TheEvilSkeleton • • •But you'd better ask Thom…
TheEvilSkeleton
in reply to Erik Wesselius • • •contrary to popular belief, GNOME isn't trying to hurt anyone with libadwaita. Every GNOME app was and will always be made for GNOME (except those who eventually decide not to), so nothing's being GNOME-ified on that front.
Before libadwaita, there was libhandy, which is essentially libadwaita for GTK3. Before libhandy, GNOME desktop-specific widgets were part of GTK, even though GTK also had its DE-agnostic equivalent widgets. So, what libhandy and libadwaita achieve is decoupling these GNOME desktop-specific widgets into its own collection of widgets specifically for the GNOME desktop.
In other words, libhandy/libadwaita literally made GTK *more* platform-agnostic by splitting itself. If anything, GTK was literally a "GNOME-ification of GTK" before libhandy and libadwaita happened. These platform-agnostic widgets are still and will remain available in GTK, and make apps that (theoretically) fit well on all desktops. A few examples of apps using GTK4 without libadwaita are Transmission and experimental versions of Inkscape.
TheEvilSkeleton
in reply to TheEvilSkeleton • • •it's such a shame the way Thom wrote the article makes it look like @linuxmint is fighting against GNOME, which isn't the interpretation I got when I read the original article. They're just trying to make those apps work well on their desktop and explaining why - GNOME apps are made for the GNOME desktop (tested, supported, etc.), and therefore the Cinnamon developers want to provide functional, well-tested platform-agnostic GTK apps, which is a valid reason that I 100% support.
Linux Mint isn't trashing GNOME in any way, and they also explicitly said they're not blaming GNOME for anything.
Itanium Thom
in reply to TheEvilSkeleton • • •I'm not blaming GNOME either.
However, fact remains that libadwaita has sucked a lot of air out of the room for desktops like Xfce, and they're obviously feeling the squeeze. It's definitely not GNOME's job to cater to non-GNOME desktops, but there's no denying that the heavy focus on libadwaita is having negative side effects, and pointing that out should not be dismissed as being "anti-GNOME".
GNOME is a great desktop, and its developers are doing an amazing job, libadwaita included. That does not mean, however, that libadwaita's negative side effects on Xfce and other non-GNOME GTK-based desktops magically go away. They're experiencing real issues over there, and waving them away feels deeply unfair to the people working on Xfce, Cinnamon, MATE, and others.